Biden, Trump Spar Over Immigration, Ukraine in Heated Debate

Biden, Trump Spar Over Immigration, Ukraine in Heated Debate
President Joe Biden (R) and Republican presidential candidate, former President Donald Trump participate in the CNN Presidential Debate at the CNN Studios in Atlanta on June 27, 2024. (Andrew Harnik/Getty Images)

CNN hosts the first presidential debate of the 2024 election tonight at 9 p.m. ET with President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump.

Follow here for the live updates:

President, First Lady Appear at Post-Debate Campaign Watch Party

President Biden and First Lady Jill Biden appeared at a campaign watch party in Atlanta following the debate.

Supporters chanted “four more years.”

“I can’t thank you all enough,” the first lady said. “Joe, you did such a great job.”

The president said the former President Donald Trump “lied” during the debate.

“They’re going to be out there fact-checking,” the president said. “I can’t think of one thing that he said that was true.”

VP Harris: Biden Had a ‘Slow Start’

By Jackson Richman

Following the debate, Vice President Kamala Harris made the rounds on CNN and MSNBC.

“It was a slow start,” she acknowledged on CNN.

But, she remarked, it’s about “the choice” the American people will be making in November.

“I’m talking about one of the most important elections and our collective lifetime,” she said.

“Do we want to continue on a course that’s about strengthening America’s economy, building and creating 15 million American jobs over 800,000 manufacturing jobs.”

Debate Ends Without a Handshake

By Catherine Yang

The candidates finished the debate without meeting for the customary handshake, and cameras faded to black.

It’s tradition to begin and end presidential debates with a handshake, but even when they took the stage, neither President Biden nor President Trump moved to do so.

Trump Criticizes Biden’s Record in Closing Statement

Former President Donald Trump was able to make the final closing statement after President Joe Biden won the coin toss ahead of the debate and opted to choose his podium position instead of having the last word.

“Like so many politicians, this man is just a complainer,” he said about President Biden, suggesting that Americans don’t “respect” the president due to the chaos at the southern border.

“He said, ‘We want to do this, to do that, we want to get rid of this tax, that tax,’ but he doesn’t do anything,” the former president said.

He alleged that the Israel–Hamas war would not have broken out if he had won the 2020 election instead of President Biden.

“Iran was broke. They had no money for Hamas or Hezbollah for terror, no money whatsoever,” he said.

Former President Trump claimed what he did as president was “incredible.” He said his administration worked to “rebuild the military” and secure the “largest tax cut in history” and the “largest regulation cut in history.”

He then alleged President Biden worked to undo the progress made during his term in office.

“We’re a failing nation, but it’s not going to be failing anymore.”

Biden’s Closing Statement

By Jackson Richman

In his closing statement, President Biden hit former President Trump on the economy and the United States not having a fair tax system.

He reiterated his pledge not to raise taxes on those making more than $400,000. He also decried the deficit going up under his predecessor.

Moreover, President Biden hit the former president for his tariff policy.

Finally, President Biden pledged that there would be childcare for all American families and that inflation would come down.

Biden Defends His Age

By Jacob Burg

Because President Joe Biden would be 86 at the end of a second term if reelected, moderator Dana Bash asked him how he would address voter concerns over the capacity to “handle the toughest job in the world well into [his] 80s.”

President Biden noted that for much of his career, he was criticized for being the “youngest person in politics” after being the second youngest person to be elected to the U.S. Senate.

“Now I’m the oldest … Just look at the record, look at what I’ve done. Look, I’ve turned around a horrible situation,” President Biden said, touting investments in the nation’s infrastructure.

“We are growing,” he said, noting that former President Donald Trump is only three years younger.

Former President Trump was given the same question, as he would be 82 at the end of his second term if reelected.

He emphasized passing “two cognitive tests” while in the White House and said he feels good for his age.

“I think I’m in very good shape. I feel that I’m in as good shape as I was 25–30 years ago,” former President Trump said.

“Actually, I’m probably a little bit lighter, but I’m in as good a shape as I was years ago. I feel very good. I feel the same,” he said.

Trump Pledges to Accept 2024 Election Results If ‘Fair and Legal’

By Catherine Yang

Former President Trump was asked if he would pledge to accept the 2024 election results once all legal challenges are exhausted.

“If it’s a fair and legal and good election, absolutely,” he said after taking a detour to address other issues. When asked if he would say that political violence is not acceptable, he answered, “it’s totally unacceptable.”

Biden: Illicit Fentanyl Decreased ‘For a While’

By Catherine Yang

President Biden said illicit fentanyl and fentanyl byproducts “went down, for a while.”

He said the border deal he proposed included a budget for large machines to detect fentanyl coming across the border, as well as more border personnel.

“We need those machines,” he said.

RFK Jr. Says Putin Wanted to Settle Ukraine War From the Beginning

By Jeff Louderback

On the topic of the Ukraine war, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said during a counterprogramming event that Russian President Vladimir Putin had asked “to settle the war from the beginning.”

Mr. Putin agreed to the Minsk Accords in 2019, Mr. Kennedy said, and Volodymyr Zelenskyy ran for Ukraine president in 2019 promising to sign the Minsk Accords.

Mr. Kennedy said Mr.Putin wanted to keep NATO out of Ukraine.

“He didn’t even want to take Ukraine. He wanted us back at the negotiating table. Zelenskyy asked the United States to help him negotiate a treaty, and the Biden administration said no,” Mr. Kennedy said at the event live-streamed on X.

Mr. Kennedy has criticized President Biden for the money his administration has sent to Ukraine. President Trump “gave the first 1.3 billion to Ukraine in 2017 of the first offensive weapons. He then sent Mike Pompeo over there in 2019 to say that we’re going to put NATO there,” Mr. Kennedy added.

Regarding the bloodshed in the Israel–Hamas war, Mr. Kennedy said that Israel “is in an existential battle now.” Hamas is “a genocidal organization which has pledged to Israel’s annihilation” and “pledged to the extermination of Jews.”

Hamas does not want a two-state solution, he said.

Biden Calls US ‘Most Admired Country’ in the World

By Jacob Burg

In response to former President Donald Trump’s suggestion that Americans “won’t have a country left anymore” if President Joe Biden wins the election and continues his current immigration policies, the president defended the United States and its image on the world stage.

“We’re the most admired country in the world. With the United States of America, there’s nothing beyond our capacity,” President Biden said.

He continued by saying the country has the “finest military in the history of the world.”

“No one thinks we’re weak. No one wants to screw around with us, nobody,” President Biden said.

Biden Responds to Migrant Question with Fastest-Growing Economy

By Jackson Richman

Former President Trump lamented that under President Biden’s watch, migrants who have crossed the border illegally are getting Social Security, leading to the program being on the road to insolvency.

President Biden responded that the people crossing the border during his presidency are a reason the United States has the fastest-growing economy in the world.

Biden: Wealthy Should Pay More Into Social Security

By Catherine Yang

President Biden said he will “make the very wealthy begin to pay their fair share” in order to keep Social Security solvent.

That one action “will keep it solvent,” he said.

Biden Touts ‘Progress’ Made for Black Americans

By Jacob Burg

Moderator Dana Bash asked President Joe Biden what he would say to black Americans who may feel he hasn’t made “more progress” despite lower unemployment for people of color.

The president suggested that there has been a historic increase in small businesses run by black Americans and highlighted efforts to reduce discrimination in corporations.

“So there’s more to be done, considerably more to be done. But we’ve done a great deal so far, and I’m not letting up, and they know it,” President Biden said.

“What do you say to black voters who are disappointed with the progress so far?” Ms. Bash asked.

The president responded by saying he doesn’t “blame them for being disappointed,” as “inflation is still hurting them badly.”

President Biden concluded by mentioning his push to give first-time black homebuyers a $10,000 tax credit to “be able to buy their first home so they can get started.”

‘You Could Feel It’: Trump Says DC Unprepared for Jan. 6

By Catherine Yang

Former President Trump said he never asked his supporters to enter the U.S. Capitol to interrupt the counting of the votes on Jan. 6, 2021.

“I said [to march] ‘peacefully and patriotically,” former President Trump said.

He said he had offered 10,000 National Guard that day and that the Washington mayor declined. He said everyone knew a lot of people were coming.

“You could feel it,” he said.

Trump and Biden Differ on Hamas-Israel War

By Jackson Richman

President Biden touted Israel and America’s allies endorsing the proposal he put forward, which he said at the time was Israel’s–to end the war between Israel and Hamas that has gone on since Oct. 7, 2023. It was the day the terrorist group launched the deadliest single-day attack of Jews since the Holocaust. The multifaceted proposal included a release of all hostages in exchange for an eventual permanent ceasefire.

President Biden said that “only Hamas wants the war to continue.” He acknowledged that he denied Israel 2,000-pound bombs, citing that they should not be used in populated areas.

He said the United States has come to Israel’s rescue as the biggest producer of military support for Israel. He said Hamas cannot be allowed to continue.

When asked if he would support an independent Palestinian state, former President Trump said, “I have to see.” During his administration, a peace plan was put forth that would have created a Palestinian state. The Palestinians rejected the proposal as they have done with all others throughout the seven-decade-long conflict.

Trump Says Putin’s Terms ‘Not Acceptable’

By T.J. Muscaro

When asked about the war in Ukraine, former President Donald Trump affirmed, “I’ll have that war settled” before he even takes office.

Russian President Vladimir Putin had released terms of a potential ceasefire under the conditions that Russia keeps the Ukrainian territory it has already claimed and Ukraine abandons its bid to join NATO.

But former President Trump said they were “not acceptable.”

He also said that “this is a war that never should have started,” and criticized President Biden for giving hundreds of billions of dollars to Ukraine.

“Every time that Zelenskyy comes to this country, he walks away with $60 billion, he’s the greatest salesman ever,” former President Trump said. “And I’m not knocking him. I’m not knocking anything. I’m only saying the money that we’re spending on this war—and we shouldn’t be spending—it should have never happened.”

Biden Touts PACT Act

By Jacob Burg

President Joe Biden highlighted passing the PACT Act of 2022 during a discussion on veterans at the CNN presidential debate. The law improved access to medical care for veterans exposed to toxic substances during military service.

The president said veterans are “better off” after passing the act. “One million of them now have insurance, and their families have it.”

“Whether it was Agent Orange or burn pits, they’re all being covered now,” President Biden said, adding that former President Donald Trump opposed the law.

“We’ve done more for veterans than any president has in American history,” he said.

“The holy, sacred obligation we have as a country is to care for our veterans, and [when] they come home, and their families, and equip them when they go to war. That’s what we’re doing.”

Trump Denies ‘Losers and Suckers’ Report

Former President Trump denied President Biden’s reference to a media report that he had told a four-star general at a cemetery in France, “I don’t want to go in there because they’re a bunch of losers …losers and suckers.”

First reported in Atlantic Magazine, former President Trump, in a conversation with senior staff members, rejected the idea of visiting Aisne-Marne American Cemetery, near Paris, in 2018, reportedly saying, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” And in a separate conversation, the same report said he referred to more than 1,800 marines who fell at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed.

“That was a made up quote, suckers and losers,” said former President Trump. “They made it up. It was in a third-rate magazine that’s failing, like many of these magazines. He made that up.

“He put it in commercials. We’ve notified them. We had 19 people that said I didn’t say it.”

The former president asked who would say that at a cemetery and affirmed that “nobody’s taken better care” of American soldiers than him.

“We’ve done more for veterans than any president has in American history,” he said, adding, “The only sacred obligation we have as a country is to care for our veterans when they come home and their families and equip them when they go to war. That’s what we’re doing.”

Biden Touts PACT Act

President Joe Biden highlighted passing the PACT Act of 2022 during a discussion on veterans at the CNN presidential debate. The law improved access to medical care for veterans exposed to toxic substances during military service.

The president said veterans are “better off” after passing the act. “One million of them now have insurance, and their families have it.”

“Whether it was Agent Orange or burn pits, they’re all being covered now,” President Biden said, adding that former President Donald Trump opposed the law.

“We’ve done more for veterans than any president has in American history,” he said.

“The holy, sacred obligation we have as a country is to care for our veterans, and [when] they come home, and their families, and equip them when they go to war. That’s what we’re doing.”

RFK Jr. Blames Deficit, Inflation on Trump, Biden

By Jeff Louderback

Former President Trump said the economy was the best in U.S. history under his administration while President Biden said that the former president left him an economy that was in freefall. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. blamed both men for running up the national debt and jointly creating inflation.

President Trump entered office promising to balance the budget, but instead he “spent more money in office that every president in history combined,” Mr. Kennedy said during a counterprogramming event streamed on X.

President Biden will surpass that mark, he said.

“He’s already run up $6.3 trillion in debt, and by the end, by time leaves offices, he’ll have run up more than President Trump. That’s why we have inflation,” Mr. Kennedy said.

Mr. Kennedy noted there is a 22 percent hike in home insurance, $4 milk and bread, and $6 gasoline.

Presidents Biden and Trump partly created the $34 trillion debt, he said.

“The interest alone on that debt is costing us more than our military budget. Within five years, 50 cents out of every dollar that we collect in taxes will go to within 10 years,” Mr..Kennedy said.

“This is one of the problems that neither of these two will talk about. This problem is the reason that they need me on stage because I would confront them with what they did. Half of this deficit is attributable to those two men, and that’s what’s causing inflation. They will never deal with inflation, deal with the money printing problem.”

Biden, Trump Go Toe-to-Toe on Border Security

By Jackson Richman

President Biden touted that the Border Patrol union endorsed his border security legislation, which Senate Republicans blocked recently. He lamented the family separation policy that was under his predecessor.

Former President Trump retorted, “We had the safest border in the history of our country.”

The Republican said Biden should have kept the Trump policies–which included requiring asylum-seekers to remain in Mexico pending adjudication–but lamented that he did not.

He avoided directly answering a question of whether he would carry out mass deportations.

Biden: ‘We Are Not for Late-Term Abortion, Period’

By Catherine Yang

President Biden said he was against late-term abortion after former President Trump’s criticism of “extreme” laws allowing abortion in the ninth month, or after birth.

“We are not for late-term abortions, period, period,” President Biden said.

Trump Supports Exceptions to Abortion

Former President Donald Trump, said he would not block access to abortion pills, when asked to address the Supreme Court’s approval of access.

He also said he supported the exceptions for incest, rape, and the life of the mother.

“I believe in the exceptions,” he said, adding “but you have to get elected.”

“Some people–you have to follow your heart–some people don’t believe in that, but I believe in the exceptions for rape, incest, and the life of the mother. I think it’s very important.”

But he took a stand against the “radical” issue of taking the life of a child in the eight or ninth month, or even after birth.

He stood by the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade, praising the fact that the matter was returned to the state governments.

“Everybody wanted to get it back to the states,” he said. “Everybody, without exception, Democrats, Republicans, liberals, conservatives. Everybody wanted it back.”

“What happened is we brought it back to the states,” he said. “And the country is now coming together on this issue. It’s been a great thing.”

Trump Defends China Tariffs

By Jacob Burg

Moderator Jake Tapper asked former President Donald Trump about his intention to impose a 10 percent tariff on all goods entering the United States, including those from China.

“How will you ensure that that doesn’t drive prices even higher?” Mr. Tapper asked.

“Not going to drive them higher. It’s just going to cause countries that have been ripping us off for years, like China and many others … to just force them to pay us a lot of money [and] reduce our deficit tremendously,” former President Trump said.

Trump Talks Tax Cuts

By Jackson Richman

Former President Trump said his 2017 tax cuts spurred “the greatest economy that we’ve ever seen just prior to COVID.”

He touted cutting the corporate tax cut from 21 percent from 39 percent and the revenue the United States was getting in oil as he was credited with having an energy policy that consisted of producing oil and gas domestically.

Biden Touts Job Creation

By Catherine Yang

The debate kicked off with a question about the economy, the consistent top concern for voters according to polls.

“President Biden, inflation has slowed, but prices remain high,” Mr. Tapper said, citing 20 percent increases in grocery prices and 30 percent increases in home prices.

“What do you say to voters who feel they are worse off under your presidency than they were under President Trump?”

President Biden said he came into office under an economy “in freefall” during a pandemic and said his administration began to put the economy back together.

“We created 15,000 new jobs … 800,000 new manufacturing jobs,” he said.

Trump, Biden Do Not Shake Hands

By Jackson Richman

For the first time in almost four years, President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump are meeting to debate and make their case why they should stay or return, respectively, to the Oval Office.

The debate, airing on CNN and simulcasting on many platforms, is being moderated by CNN anchors Jake Tapper and Dana Bash in a studio at CNN’s headquarters in Georgia.

President Biden is on the right side of the television screen, and former President Donald Trump is on the left. They did not shake hands upon taking the stage.

Potential VP Pick Stefanik Sounds Off

By Janice Hisle

ATLANTA—Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-N.Y.) responded to The Epoch Times’s question about her chances of becoming the former president’s running mate.

“I’m honored to have my name in consideration. I’m going to continue working hard as the representative for New York’s 21st congressional district and as the House Republican Conference chair, I’m proud to be the first member of Congress to endorse President Trump for 2024,” she said.

Ms. Stefanik said the Republican Party is “really unified across America to save this country, that means electing President Donald J. Trump.”

“And I think tonight is going to be a great night, with a very clear contrast between Joe Biden’s failed and flawed record and the weakness that he has asserted around the globe versus the economic success and the National Security success, the border security success under President Trump,” she said.

Biden Jokes About Performance Enhancers Before Debate

By T.J. Muscaro

Less than 30 minutes before President Joe Biden took the stage, he joked about conjecture that he could be using performance enhancements for his debate with former President Donald Trump.

“I don’t know what they’ve got in these performance enhancers, but I’m feeling pretty jacked up,” he said on X. “Try it yourselves, folks.”

He shared a picture with a can of water called “Dark Brandon’s Secret Sauce.” It included his picture on the label that says, “Get real jack. It’s just water.”

He also shared a link to a campaign webpage where people can purchase the water.

“The secret to a good debate performance? Staying hydrated,” the campaign writes on the webpage. “Get yourself the same performance enhancers Joe Biden took before going on stage. 100% water, 0% malarkey.”

The Trump campaign had requested a drug test before the debate, but the Biden campaign declined.

Newsom Urges Candidates to Shake Hands Before Debate

By Jacob Burg

In an interview with CNN, California Gov. Gavin Newsom said President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump should shake hands before the presidential debate.

“I like civility,” he said. “So walking in confidently, shaking a hand—I think our kids are watching as well. I prefer a world like that—that’s personal.”

Mr. Newsom said he would work with anyone who wants to “advance the cause of this country,” and that “goes back to this ability of shaking someone’s hand.”

The governor said he “vehemently” disagrees with the former president on policies but emphasized the importance of showing confidence and civility tonight.

“President Biden is confident. He’s got a record, and he’s got a vision for the future,” he said, adding that the president should prove his confidence with a handshake.

Trump Spokeswoman Describes Hispanics’ Support

By Janice Hisle

ATLANTA—Danielle Alvarez, whose loved ones escaped Cuba’s communist regime, said Hispanics who came legally to the United States respect former President Donald Trump’s immigration policies.

Ms. Alvarez said her uncle was jailed for 26 years in Cuba “for no reason other than disagreeing” with Fidel Castro’s dictatorship.

“When we come to the United States, we seek the ability to pursue our American Dream. We’re very entrepreneurial, and the support for that was better under President Trump,” she told The Epoch Times in an exclusive interview in the spin room at Georgia Tech’s McCamish Pavilion near the debate site.

She said fellow Hispanics recognize “there are legal ways to enter this country, and having a secure border is critically important to any sovereign nation.”

Ms. Alvarez said that for the first time in modern history, “both individuals at the podium tonight, both candidates will be referred to as ‘Mr. President.’” Voters, therefore, will have two known presidential records to compare, she said.

She said people will be asking themselves: “What does the future look like for me, for my family?”

Ramaswamy Says He’s Not on Trump VP Shortlist

By Emel Akan and Catherine Yang

ATLANTA—Former GOP candidate Vivek Ramaswamy told reporters former President Donald Trump has not asked him to be vice president.

“He has not asked me to be his vice president, whoever he asks is going to have, I think, a remarkable ability to serve this country in taking that American First agenda even further,” he said.

Mr. Ramaswamy predicted that former President Trump would not be combative on the debate stage, but rather unifying.

“Donald Trump is somebody who actually deeply in his heart cares about national unity. And I don’t think that’s something that a lot of people know about him,” Mr. Ramaswamy said.

He added that he hoped CNN would be unifying as well, focusing on voter concerns.

“If the moderators let the candidates have positive, actual affirmative exchanges about policy, that’s gonna be a service to the United States of America,” he said.

“Which CNN shows up, I think is actually the real question for tonight, not which Trump or Biden shows up.”

Trump VP Picks in Atlanta

By Janice Hisle and Emel Akan

ATLANTA—Former President Donald Trump has stated that he has chosen his vice presidential running mate, and that his choice would be present in Atlanta.

But one of those potential running mates, Rep. Byron Donalds (R-Fla.), told reporters: “Donald Trump’s gonna make that decision….You know, there’s a lot of us here in Atlanta.”

Mr. Donalds said nothing further about his chances of becoming the former president’s running mate.

Asked for a list of surrogates who would be in the spin room on debate night, the Trump campaign told The Epoch Times that no list was available.

In a short one-on-one interview with The Epoch Times, Mr. Donalds predicted a “strong contrast” between the two presidential candidates would become apparent during the debate. He believes the former president will demonstrate he “has the recipe to fix our country.”

Mr. Donalds said that former President Donald Trump continued campaigning while preparing for the debate, but President Joe Biden took eight days away from his presidential duties to prepare for the showdown.

He said he could not recall another president doing that during his lifetime, adding, “That’s concerning to me as an American, because the world, the issues, don’t stop when you’re in that job.”

Newsom: ‘Everything Matters’

By Janice Hisle and Emel Akan

ATLANTA—California Gov. Gavin Newsom, a Democrat surrogate for President Joe Biden, told reporters about the importance of tonight’s historic debate.

“In close elections, generally, everything matters,” he said during a press scrum in the “spin room” at the McCamish Pavilion, across from the site where President Biden and former President Donald Trump will take the stage at 9 p.m. Eastern.

Still, Mr. Newsom said that the candidates’ debate performance may not “be determinative” for voters.

“I think we can overstate it,” he said, referring to the importance of the debate. “We can get a little… breathless in our analysis and our political punditry.”

He said there will be many other important moments in the campaign leading up to the Nov. 5 general election, “including two not-so-insignificant conventions.”

Republicans will meet in July to officially name former President Trump their presidential nominee; Democrats will gather in August to bestow that honor on President Biden.

Mr. Newsom said the debate will turn on President Biden’s “ability to lift up the issues and drive contrast” with the former president.

He said the incumbent needs to “focus on what he’s accomplished in just three and a half years” as well as what he wants to accomplish in a second term.

“What’s the compelling vision for the future?” Mr. Newsom said.

CNN Denies Request From White House Reporters

By Jacob Burg

The White House Correspondents’ Association (WHCA), a nonprofit organization of journalists who cover the president and the White House, issued a statement today criticizing CNN for only allowing photographers and CNN reporters inside the studio for the presidential debate.

“WHCA is deeply concerned that CNN has rejected our repeated requests to include the White House travel pool inside the studio,” the organization said.

CNN said a single print pool reporter can go inside during a commercial break to “briefly observe the setting.”

“That is not sufficient in our view and diminishes a core principle of presidential coverage,” the WHCA said.

The group said pool reporters are necessary to “provide context and insight by direct observation and not through the lens of the television production.”

The WHCA said the Biden and Trump campaigns supported their request to allow a pool reporter inside the studio.

What to Know

By Jacob Burg

CNN will host the first presidential debate of the 2024 election tonight at 9 p.m. ET with President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump. This is not only the earliest presidential debate in an election year in modern history, but it is also the first time a sitting president has debated a former president.

Jake Tapper and Dana Bash will moderate, and CNN will broadcast the 90-minute debate live. It will be simulcast on other networks, including NTD, our sister media outlet.

There will be no studio audience, candidates’ microphones will be muted while their opponent is speaking, and two minutes are allotted for question answers with one minute for rebuttals.

The debate will offer both candidates an opportunity to outline their key policies and sway undecided voters in a race that polls show is incredibly close.

The Trump campaign said that “President Trump looks forward to presenting his vision for a prosperous, safe and secure America” in a statement on June 26.

Today, the Biden-Harris campaign said in a statement that voters will see “two contrasting visions” on the debate stage tonight, with President Biden “fight for the American people.”

From The Epoch Times

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